Interview Magazine

DAN YAKIR: The roles you've played have required plenty of physical activity: some pretty intense horseback riding in Silverado and some tough cycling through mountain terrain in American Flyers. Do you always look for this physical edge?

KEVIN COSTNER: I'm really at my best when I'm in motion, when I'm outdoors. It's just my nature. The tools you have as an actor are your voice, your body-the package with which you can do things-and everyone discovers what they can do. You find how safe it is to manipulate your body, how far you can go. Your hands, your eyebrows, your mouth, your back-those are your allies, and I really depend on them to hone the whole character, to bring it all the way around. You call on them, and if you train them they're there for you.

DY: Have you experienced moments of terrible fear doing stunts?

KC: A couple of times. But I usually have a bigger fear that if I don't do it, it's not going to look right. I have to watch that I don't try to do everything, but I also have to watch that not everything be done for me.

In No Way Out, we did a chase sequence and Roger Donaldson, the director said, "You've got to look like nobody's going to want to get in the car with you. " That was his way of telling me to act crazy I did it. Later in the day I said, "Get in the car with me, let's go!" And he said, "No way!" I felt I was doing my job.

DY: Did the role of Eliot Ness in The Untouchables entail such physical prowess? Maybe here the physical actually implied violence? .

KC: He’s a gentle man, but when you’re a law officer you expect to encounter violence. With Eliot it goes even further: You always detect an edge in him, as he could go off, given the right provocation. It's a quality he would need in order to do his job. He’s a man who likes the law and likes his family, and when he's taunted and pushed far enough, the violent streak has below the surface is activated. It's not unlike my own personality. I call be manipulated a little bit, but you can't take advantage of me. I can be pushed about a hundred yards, but there's one inch that's really mine, and it's not a great idea for anybody to get in there. I’m kind of afraid of that ugly streak.

DY: Have you put this streak to the test?

KC: Yes, I have, and I'm not real proud of it. Things don't always have to get that way, though. I don't feel threatened very easily, which is why I might not project this, but it can get to the point where you'd say, "hey, this isn't really Kevin." At the same time, if somebody asks me for a little more time, I'll give them a little more time. The words "please" and "I'm sorry" mean a lot to me. Somebody can do something really terrible to me and I call respond in whatever manner, but if they come over and catch my eye and say, "I'm really sorry," I melt, even though they've emotionally vomited all over me. I admire people who can say, "Fuck you! Your saying you're sorry doesn't mean shit, because you ruined my day. I don't do that. Unless they get into that one inch.

DY: Did you set out to portray Ness as he was? Or was it your own interpretation?."

KC: I have my own way of doing things, which is really very simple. I go with what’s written in the script and then start making things up. We changed some specific facts about Ness, but I did research the role. I talked with one surviving "untouchable," with Treasury Department, with members of the FBI, and I read a lot of books. There's nothing flashy about Eliot Ness. Playing him meant that I had to take a straight line through tile movie, so I played it the old-fashioned way, which is just to stand and deliver tile lines.

DY: In other words you had to withhold rather than be expressive?

KC: Yeah. It was the hardest role I’ve ever done, because I wanted to make sure he had enough life, but I didn’t want to sabotage him by putting in to much charm. The challenge is to make people like you the way you are, the way Eliot Ness was. The fact is a lot of people didn’t like him, because he was enforcing a very unpopular law. I mean, he was out to wreck the party.

In the beginning I felt that making Eliot so naive actually made him unsympathetic. The gangsters are very glorious, you know-you’re going to like them. Maybe (screenwriter) David Mamet wanted to make Eliot unlikable in the beginning, but in the end, when the party turns very ugly, suddenly the guy you’ve invited who seems like a real bore takes charge, and you’re happy he’s there. In the end he becomes quite violent, taking the law into his own hands. It takes time to warn up to him.

DY: Were you concerned about that?

KC: Maybe I would have done it differently, but then I’ve never had a hit in my life, so I just shut up and did what I’m good at, what I’m paid to do, which is to make a scene work.

DY: What about No Way Out?

KC: It’s about a character who is in very deep, and he just can’t cope with all the powers coming to bear on him. But then he fights back, and you realize he has more to him than you suspected.

DY: It seems that here, too, you’ve been asked to do less rather than more.

KC: It was difficult, having to hide a lot of things. He’s full of secrets; he doesn't let you in. In my heart, I would prefer playing the kind of characters I saw around me- and this movie has so many-as opposed to the guy everybody just bounces off of. Gene Hackman and Will Patton are so great, and they had the flashy kind of anger. But there's plenty of time for me.

DY: The love scenes in the movie are supposed to be very sexy.

KC: I didn't think of myself as sexy in this movie, because I cut off all of my hair in it, And I play a character older than myself. I kiss the girl the way I wanna kiss her, not because I think it's going to be sexy. Maybe that makes it sexy. There's one kiss that I do just like it 1940s movie, right on the lips! And once when I haven't seen her in a long time, I just take her in my arms and kiss her long and hard-but just a straight kiss; I don’t have my tongue have way down her throat.

I feel I can get away with a lot by doing a little. A lot of actors are afraid to give a lot because they think it's cool not to give anything. They just feel that all these guys who make careers out of being subtle simply aren’t giving. You can't do nothing and still be interesting. It's bullshit! The trick is to see how much you can give, and then pull back from that. The camera can make you look beautiful, or the music can make you seem interesting but I know that's not enough. You have to go as far as its possible on screen…give, give, give, give! Be generous. I'm not saying, "Go over the top," but you have to go as close as you can to that. Otherwise you're not giving anybody their money’s worth; a Chihuahua could do it.

DY: You’re considered one of the hottest leading men in Hollywood. Can that be limiting to you in any way?

KC: They’re not going to let me do Hunchback of Notre Dame or The Elephant Man, but I don’t necessarily have to plat leading men. I could put on a clown’s face and be very happy doing character parts. I have to like a character I play or I can’t play him, but I have to like him.

DY: How do you feel about becoming a sex symbol?

KC: I don’t know. When I did Silverado I didn’t think once about my role in terms of my appeal to women. When I was preparing for the role I decided to compete with nature. Since my character didn’t relate to any other characters on screen, I shouted at the hills and stuff like that. Later, when I was told that women liked that, I was shocked. It was a good lesson: you can’t anticipate what people are going to think.

I act with my heart much more than I do with my head. I break things down way before it is time to act, and then I try to get out of control. I don’t calculate. You see, if I hear that people like the way I laugh or the way I walk, pretty soon I’m going to start laughing and walking like that in every fucking film. You can’t hide too well on film to begin with-your soul comes shining through so the thing to do is try to go places you haven’t before.

DY: What kind of need does acting fulfill for you?

KC: It's an inherent kind of thing, I guess. The movies aren't enough for me, so I’ll probably do something else. I don't know what, but I'll tell you, if I couldn't do this, I would probably just be a trapper in the mountains. It has to be one or the other either I'm going to be in the center of things or very far away, where nothing can affect me.

DY: You lead a peaceful existence in a middle class neighborhood yet you describe yourself as an outlaw.

KC: I feel I live two different lives, and I have a private side that may be very dark. My family comes to the set, and I have a lot of fun with the children-my own and my brother's. But then there's another side that I can't fully explain. It's almost like being drunk, when you can't explain what's happened. I have to get juice from something, and I get it from seeing things that I haven't seen.

I'm forced always to refine my thoughts. Before I started having to give interviews I never had to explain myself. Look, I'm not as clever or charming as you may think I am, and I'm not as big a prick as you may think I am, either. I'm just somewhere in the middle. Sometimes, when I start feeling too good about myself, I have to get away. I have a bit of rascal in me, and he has to come out of the bag sometimes.

DY: And you’d rather he came out in the wilderness?

KC: Yeah, not under a microscope. It wouldn't be a great idea to do that at some premiere. (laughs) I like to go hunting and fishing with my friends--directors, actors. In fact, I often take my family and we stay for a month or two. That doesn't speak very much of an outlaw.

DY: Has success changed you?

KC: I don't think it has. My life's evolving very rapidly. I'm not the same person I was a year ago. A lot of it has to do with meeting open, interesting people, who introduce me to new ideas. Otherwise the basic shell hasn't changed at all. It's just that I'm more confident about things. My notions about film are clear. I feel that I've hit on what it is that I do best, which helps put my mind at peace. My lifestyle hasn’t changed, in the sense that you can only eat so much food and you can only get 24 hours a day, like everybody else.

DY: Don’t you sense any pressure to belong to the Hollywood scene?

KC: No, I think you either want to buy into that or you don’t. I get plenty of invites, but I don’t go out very often. It’s tough getting a baby sitter, man!

DY: How much time do you spend with your family?

KC: As much as I can. Annie has a lot to say about things: she’s fully baked. She came to the set when I was doing No Way Out, and I asked her, “Annie, how’re you doin’?” and she put a finger to my lips and said, “Shh, Daddy. They’re making a movie.”

Did you have a fatherly instinct right away, or was it something you had to cultivate?

KC: Right away. I felt I was the first man ever to touch my daughters, and I think that forever they will measure other men by me.

DY: What kind of childhood did you have?

KC: For the most part it was very, very normal, which made it a hard choice to become an actor, since that wasn’t “normal” at all. The choice of acting could have been considered indulgent, an indication of maybe not wanting to grow up or face the real world.

DY: You broke away from business, which you started out with.

KC: Right out if the university. I graduated with a degree in marketing and finance, held a job about 30 days and then took off.

DY: When do you think you became aware of what you were all about?

KC: the day I decided to act, about ten years ago. I though “Well, good for you! You finally made a fuckin’ decision in your life! And I never once looked back. I never dreamed of giving it five years and then quitting. I just thought, “This is it!” I really had to listen to that voice. I guess the notion of the “outlaw” has to do with a quiet confidence that enables me not to care about what anybody else thinks.

DY: How did you start your career?

KC: I came to Los Angeles and started to act in some little workshops. They were casting exploitation movies, and my acting teacher asked me if I wanted to do a role, and I said, “Yeah, I want to get some experience.” I did a T&A movie called Sizzle Beach. Then I did a film called Shadows Run Black, where I played a murder suspect. I felt I really had a to become something, but these movies were not the way.

So I didn’t act for about six years after that, until I did Stacey’s Knights, directed by Jimmy Wilson. It was decent and not exploitive. And right out of it I moved onto the Big Chill.

DY: You didn’t act for six years?

KC: I acted, but on my own terms. I was learning acting, and that’s when I really started falling in love with it. I started a group with some directors and writers and other actors, and for two years I was acting every night. It was a very intense workshop. I didn’t work with an eight by ten. I didn’t really try to get an agent, because I didn’t want to go through any explanations. I was an actor: I didn’t need the confirmation of an agent. And then people became aware that there’s this guy who is doing things very much on his own terms-not that I was the only one….

DY: How close do you get to people?

KC: I have some very good friends, people with great sensibilities. Within our circle there doesn’t seem to be much of an ulterior motive to things, other than a desire to work with each other. That’s why you stay close to people you want to work with. I love people: I genuinely like the exchange. But I also like to be by myself.

DY: What about Connery, De Niro, Hackman?

KC: Connery is great. He has all the charm you'd ever want, and real charisma. He's always good. Like Gene Hackman-there's a great actor for you. He gives a lot; he's much more relaxed with his talent than I am with mine. With De Niro it was very good, too. He was very gracious to me. Everybody who knows him, likes him. But I didn't hang out with any of them, because that's not my nature. De Niro is private, too. I got along with everybody, but when the day was done, we'd just go our own ways. De Niro and I thought we might get together one night, but we never did.

DY: How do you maintain your autonomy in the industry?

KC: I've never felt quite in the mainstream. I don't feel like a punk, nor am I an avant-garde kind of person. I guess I feel so basic that I don't fit in a really artistic environment. I don't try to put out an artful persona. But I think a lot about my art.

I don't have agents and publicists and managers. I've avoided having an entourage. I read everything that is sent to me, and I make my own decisions. I just don't let people box me in. People keep wanting me to do different kinds of things. They've always wanted me to do press, but I just talk to the press when I think the movies warrants it. I've a very low profile, by and large, for someone getting the roles that I get. I'm completely lost about my image; I have no idea what my image is, truly. I know what my kids think of me, and I know what my friends think of me, but not what people out there feel about me.

DY: Do you think such awareness would be detrimental?

KC: No, I know I'm heading for something, getting known more and more, and I feel real comfortable with the way everything is happening. I don't think people who see my movies feel that I've been forced down their throats. I've allowed the work to precede me and not the other way around.

DY: Which of your films do you like the most?

KC: Fandango is my favorite. Kevin Reynolds (the director) has a really strong vision and a good sense of humor. He does what works for him and refuses to cater to others. We're friends. The film was basically thrown away by the studio. Larry Kasdan, whom I totally respect, brought a tape down to the set of Silverado. He said, “This is an American art film.” But it’s a flawed movie because of its beginning. They tried to please too many people, and the audience that was really going to get this movie was offended. And the masses it was intended for never got to see it anyway. So they missed out on all counts.

DY: Do you feel a responsibility to show the audience something by which they can improve themselves? Or would that be to didactic?

KC: I don't think it's a planned thing, but I do know that movies have always affected me, and they can be lessons on how to behave under great stress. The images of our heroes and how they acted against all odds inspire our actions when we're put to the test. If you strive to be a good person, then my portrayal of an honorable mail will get to you. But if you don’t care, I could play Lincoln and you’d walk away.

The characters I play are frequently better than I am personally. They're more heroic, more honorable. I try to honor the world of the character by being as accurate and truthful as I can.

DY: Does it ever rub off in some way?

KC: I don't know. It must have rubbed off on Henry Fonda. He played so many great men; he turned into a great man himself. But I don't adhere to the notion that you must stay in character 24 hours a day. When you wrap for the day, you let go of it. Otherwise, you're too self-absorbed, and you may not notice that somebody needs you. Also, I do a movie partly for the exchange of ideas among the cast and crew, and I don't want to miss out on that, which I would if I stayed in character all the time. But I also try not to let the part go, by dreaming a lot. I try to take two naps a day, and just before I go under I think about the role. I always get a very clear picture of what it's about.

DY: You actually induce dreams about the part?

KC: I can't control what I dream about, but just before I fall asleep I concentrate and I get images. That's where I got the idea to put the hat on the horse in Silverado. I saw it. And jumping over the bar, and taking my boots off underneath the bar-I saw all of these in a dream.

DY: Would you like to do a big, romantic story someday?

KC: Yeah, right now I'm collaborating with Lou Garfinkle, who wrote The Deer Hunter, on the writing of an epic picture based on (Isaak) Babel's works. It's called Benya the King and it's set during the Bolshevik Revolution. I would be on horseback again, and there's a big love affair, which is never consummated, but it just tears you apart. The lovers are separated most of the time. It has big charges, cavalry and swordplay I just love that stuff.